Translation Memory:002-Tsadra-BCA-Com-Nectar/1909: Difference between revisions
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|English=In fact, the Samkhyas make a distinction, saying that if pleasure and the rest, in a gross apparent form, become more subtle, they exist in a state of nonmanifest potentiality and cannot be perceived. But it is a contradiction to say that pleasure and so forth, defined as one and permanent, have opposite states of grossness and subtlety. How can they possibly be both? {{bcaverse|Padmakara2006|9.133}}The Samkhyas may try to defend themselves by saying that a preceding state of grossness may be cast off and a new state of subtlety assumed. But a pleasure that can become gross or subtle is demonstrably{{pagebreak|376|The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech}} impermanent. And if the Samkhyas assert that pleasure and the other gunas, when manifest, can throw off a preceding state and enter into another, why do they not also attribute impermanence to all of the twenty-five principles? For it is never possible for all of them to be observed with the same mode of appearance. The Samkhyas may say that, whether gross or subtle, the actual nature of pleasure is never lost, and therefore its permanent character is not impaired. To this it must be said that pleasure and its character of grossness are either two different things or the same. If they are different, it follows that when its grossness subsides, the pleasure itself does not subside and is still manifest, and should therefore continue to be felt. | |English=In fact, the Samkhyas make a distinction, saying that if pleasure and the rest, in a gross apparent form, become more subtle, they exist in a state of nonmanifest potentiality and cannot be perceived. But it is a contradiction to say that pleasure and so forth, defined as one and permanent, have opposite states of grossness and subtlety. How can they possibly be both? {{bcaverse|Padmakara2006|9.133}}The Samkhyas may try to defend themselves by saying that a preceding state of grossness may be cast off and a new state of subtlety assumed. But a pleasure that can become gross or subtle is demonstrably{{pagebreak|376|The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech}} impermanent. And if the Samkhyas assert that pleasure and the other gunas, when manifest, can throw off a preceding state and enter into another, why do they not also attribute impermanence to ''all'' of the twenty-five principles? For it is never possible for all of them to be observed with the same mode of appearance. The Samkhyas may say that, whether gross or subtle, the actual nature of pleasure is never lost, and therefore its permanent character is not impaired. To this it must be said that pleasure and its character of grossness are either two different things or the same. If they are different, it follows that when its grossness subsides, the pleasure itself does not subside and is still manifest, and should therefore continue to be felt. | ||
|SegmentFormat=Commentary | |SegmentFormat=Commentary | ||
|TranslationPageNumber=376 | |TranslationPageNumber=376 | ||
Revision as of 00:30, 26 July 2022
002-Tsadra-BCA-Com-Nectar/1909 ID: 002-Tsadra-BCA-Com-Nectar <br> Date: 10 June 2022 <br> Creator: Migmar;Gwen;Marcus;Jeremi <br> Origin: Tsadra Foundation
Segment Data
| English | In fact, the Samkhyas make a distinction, saying that if pleasure and the rest, in a gross apparent form, become more subtle, they exist in a state of nonmanifest potentiality and cannot be perceived. But it is a contradiction to say that pleasure and so forth, defined as one and permanent, have opposite states of grossness and subtlety. How can they possibly be both? If coarseness is abandoned, subtlety assumed, Subtlety and grossness both lack permanence. So why not grant that, in this way, All things possess the character of transience?Blankleder, Helena, and Wulstan Fletcher (Padmakara Translation Group), trans. The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech: A Detailed Commentary on Shantideva's Way of the Bodhisattva. By Kunzang Pelden. Boston: Shambhala Publications, 2010. impermanent. And if the Samkhyas assert that pleasure and the other gunas, when manifest, can throw off a preceding state and enter into another, why do they not also attribute impermanence to all of the twenty-five principles? For it is never possible for all of them to be observed with the same mode of appearance. The Samkhyas may say that, whether gross or subtle, the actual nature of pleasure is never lost, and therefore its permanent character is not impaired. To this it must be said that pleasure and its character of grossness are either two different things or the same. If they are different, it follows that when its grossness subsides, the pleasure itself does not subside and is still manifest, and should therefore continue to be felt. |
|---|---|
| RootTextChapterNum | 9 |
| RootTextVerseNum | 133 |
| SegmentFormat | Commentary |
| SourcePageNumber | 717 |
| SourceSabcheNumber | 2.3.2.1.3.1. |
| SourceSegmentOrder | 1909 |
| Tibetan | གལ་ཏེ་བདེ་སོགས་རགས་པ་གསལ་བ་དེ་ཉིད་ཕྲ་མོར་[p.718]Byang chub sems dpa'i spyod pa la 'jug pa rtsa ba dang 'grel pa (1990) རགས་པ་དོར་ནས་ཕྲ་གྱུར་བས། ། ཕྲ་རགས་དེ་དག་མི་རྟག་ཉིད། ། དེ་བཞིན་དངོས་པོ་ཐམས་ཅད་ནི། ། མི་རྟག་ཉིད་དུ་ཅིས་མི་འདོད། །rags pa dor nas phra gyur bas/_/ phra rags de dag mi rtag nyid/_/ de bzhin dngos po thams cad ni/_/ mi rtag nyid du cis mi 'dod/_/ |
| TranslationChapter | 9 |
| TranslationChapterSubsection | Refutation of the Primal Substance |
| TranslationCitation | Blankleder, Helena, and Wulstan Fletcher (Padmakara Translation Group), trans. The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech: A Detailed Commentary on Shantideva's Way of the Bodhisattva. By Kunzang Pelden. Boston: Shambhala Publications, 2007. |
| TranslationPageNumber | 376 |
| TranslationPublishedYear | 2007 |
| TranslationWikiPage | The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech |
| Translator | Fletcher, W.; Blankleder, H. |
| Wylie | gal te bde sogs rags pa gsal ba de nyid phra mor[p.718]Byang chub sems dpa'i spyod pa la 'jug pa rtsa ba dang 'grel pa (1990) རགས་པ་དོར་ནས་ཕྲ་གྱུར་བས། ། ཕྲ་རགས་དེ་དག་མི་རྟག་ཉིད། ། དེ་བཞིན་དངོས་པོ་ཐམས་ཅད་ནི། ། མི་རྟག་ཉིད་དུ་ཅིས་མི་འདོད། །rags pa dor nas phra gyur bas/_/ phra rags de dag mi rtag nyid/_/ de bzhin dngos po thams cad ni/_/ mi rtag nyid du cis mi 'dod/_/ |
| ChantedAudio |
Alignment info
| Parameter | Value |
|---|---|
| AuthorLabel | Kunzang Palden 1862 - 1943 |
| DuplicateRootTranslation | false |
| Notes | First Translation Memory Created by Tsadra Foundation. |
| RootSourceTransMem | 001-Tsadra-BCA-Root-Padmakara |
| RootTextWikiPage | Texts/Bodhicaryāvatāra |
| ShortTitle | Padmakara (2006) |
| SourceAuthor | People/Kun bzang dpal ldan |
| SourceCitation | Kun bzang dpal ldan. Byang chub sems dpa'i spyod pa la 'jug pa'i tshig 'grel 'jam dbyangs bla ma'i zhal lung bdud rtsi'i thig pa. IN byang chub sems dpa'i spyod pa la 'jug pa rtsa ba dang 'grel pa. khreng tu'u: si khron mi rigs dpe skrun khang, 1990. BDRC W21985 |
| SourcePublishedYear | 1990 |
| SourceTitleTibetan | བྱང་ཆུབ་སེམས་དཔའི་སྤྱོད་པ་ལ་འཇུག་པའི་ཚིག་འགྲེལ་འཇམ་དབྱངས་བླ་མའི་ཞལ་ལུང་བདུད་རྩིའི་ཐིག་པ། |
| SourceTitleWylie | Byang chub sems dpa'i spyod pa la 'jug pa'i tshig 'grel 'jam dbyangs bla ma'i zhal lung bdud rtsi'i thig pa |
| SourceVersionLabel | Kunzang Palden (1862 - 1943) |
| SourceWikiPage | Books/Byang chub sems dpa'i spyod pa la 'jug pa rtsa ba dang 'grel pa (1990) |
| TranslationCitation | Blankleder, Helena, and Wulstan Fletcher (Padmakara Translation Group), trans. The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech: A Detailed Commentary on Shantideva's Way of the Bodhisattva. By Kunzang Pelden. Boston: Shambhala Publications, 2007. |
| TranslationPublishedYear | 2007 |
| TranslationWikiPage | Books/The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech |
| Translator | People/Blankleder, H.;People/Fletcher, W.;People/Padmakara Translation Group |
| TransMemCreator | Migmar;Gwen;Marcus;Jeremi |
| TransMemDate | 10 June 2022 |
| TransMemID | 002-Tsadra-BCA-Com-Nectar |
| TransMemNum | 002 |
| TransMemOrigin | Tsadra Foundation |
| TransMemType | Commentary |
