Translation Memory:002-Tsadra-BCA-Com-Nectar/1758: Difference between revisions
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|English=The example that the Samkhyas give is invalid. When one says that a man is both father and son, one is merely attaching labels to him on the basis of two distinct relationships. He cannot, in any absolute sense, and by nature, be both father and son. If by nature he is truly existent as father, it{{pagebreak|349|The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech}} is impossible for him ever to assume the condition of being a son, since in that case, fatherhood takes precedence over sonship. On the other hand, if ''by nature'' he is truly existent as a son, it is impossible for him to become a father, because it is impossible for [the truly existent state of] sonship to precede [a later] state of fatherhood. This whole matter is simply one of labeling. As such, we have certainly no intention of refuting it, and in any case it does not prove what the Samkhyas want it to prove.{{note|214|Tom, the father of Dick, is the son of Harry. It is only in terms of his connections with Dick and Harry that Tom can be simultaneously described as both father and son. The mistake of the Samkhyas is to absolutize relations, which are by definition relative. If the definition of Tom is completely exhausted in the fact of his sonship (which must be the case if he is indivisibly | |English=The example that the Samkhyas give is invalid. When one says that a man is both father and son, one is merely attaching labels to him on the basis of two distinct relationships. He cannot, in any absolute sense, and by nature, be both father and son. If by nature he is truly existent as father, it{{pagebreak|349|The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech}} is impossible for him ever to assume the condition of being a son, since in that case, fatherhood takes precedence over sonship. On the other hand, if ''by nature'' he is truly existent as a son, it is impossible for him to become a father, because it is impossible for [the truly existent state of] sonship to precede [a later] state of fatherhood. This whole matter is simply one of labeling. As such, we have certainly no intention of refuting it, and in any case it does not prove what the Samkhyas want it to prove.{{note|214|Tom, the father of Dick, is the son of Harry. It is only in terms of his connections with Dick and Harry that Tom can be simultaneously described as both father and son. The mistake of the Samkhyas is to absolutize relations, which are by definition relative. If the definition of Tom is completely exhausted in the fact of his sonship (which must be the case if he is indivisibly "one” and by nature a truly existent son), he is locked for all eternity in his relation with Harry. There is no room for his relation with Dick. The same is true, mutatis mutandis, regarding his fatherhood.}} | ||
|SegmentFormat=Commentary | |SegmentFormat=Commentary | ||
|TranslationPageNumber=349 | |TranslationPageNumber=349 | ||
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|TranslationChapterSubsection=Refutation of the Belief in a Self That Is Conscious | |TranslationChapterSubsection=Refutation of the Belief in a Self That Is Conscious | ||
|SourceSabcheNumber=2.2.1.2.1. | |SourceSabcheNumber=2.2.1.2.1. | ||
|TransMemID= | |TransMemID=002-Tsadra-BCA-Com-Nectar | ||
|TransMemDate=June 10, 2022 | |TransMemDate=June 10, 2022 | ||
|TransMemCreator=Kiran; Gwen; Marcus; Jeremi | |TransMemCreator=Kiran; Gwen; Marcus; Jeremi | ||
Latest revision as of 16:40, 21 April 2026
002-Tsadra-BCA-Com-Nectar/1758 ID: 002-Tsadra-BCA-Com-Nectar <br> Date: 10 June 2022 <br> Creator: Migmar;Gwen;Marcus;Jeremi <br> Origin: Tsadra Foundation
Segment Data
| English | The example that the Samkhyas give is invalid. When one says that a man is both father and son, one is merely attaching labels to him on the basis of two distinct relationships. He cannot, in any absolute sense, and by nature, be both father and son. If by nature he is truly existent as father, it[p.350]The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech |
|---|---|
| RootTextChapterNum | 9 |
| RootTextVerseNum | 63 |
| SegmentFormat | Commentary |
| SourcePageNumber | 672 |
| SourceSabcheNumber | 2.2.1.2.1. |
| SourceSegmentOrder | 1758 |
| Tibetan | དེའི་དཔེ་མ་གྲུབ་སྟེ་སྐྱེས་བུ་གཅིག་ནི་ཕ་དང་བུ་ཉིད་དུ་བཞག་པ་ནི་ལྟོས་ས་ཐ་དད་པ་གཉིས་ལ་ལྟོས་ནས་བརྟགས་པའམ་བཏགས་པ་ཙམ་ཡིན་གྱི །དོན་དམ་པར་རང་གི་ངོ་བོས་ཕ་བུ་གཉིས་ཀར་ཡང་དག་པར་ཉིད་དུ་གྲུབ་པ་མིན་ཏེ། །རང་གི་ངོ་བོས་ཕར་བདེན་པར་གྲུབ་ན་དེའི་བུའི་གནས་སྐབས་སུ་འགྱུར་བ་མི་སྲིད་དེ་ཕ་ནི་བུའི་སྔོན་དུ་ཡོད་པས་ཁྱབ་པའི་ཕྱིར། ཡང་བུའི་རང་བཞིན་དུ་བདེན་པར་གྲུབ་ན་ཕར་འགྱུར་མི་སྲིད་དེ་བུ་ཕའི་སྔོན་དུ་མི་སྲིད་པའི་ཕྱིར། དེས་ན་དེ་བཏགས་པ་ཙམ་མོ། །བཏགས་པ་ཙམ་ནི་ངེད་ཀྱིས་ཀྱང་འགོག་པར་མི་འདོད་མོད་དེས་ཁྱོད་ཀྱི་ཞེ་འདོད་འགྲུབ་པར་མི་འགྱུར་རོ། ། |
| TranslationChapter | 9 |
| TranslationChapterSubsection | Refutation of the Belief in a Self That Is Conscious |
| TranslationCitation | Blankleder, Helena, and Wulstan Fletcher (Padmakara Translation Group), trans. The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech: A Detailed Commentary on Shantideva's Way of the Bodhisattva. By Kunzang Pelden. Boston: Shambhala Publications, 2007. |
| TranslationPageNumber | 349 |
| TranslationPublishedYear | 2007 |
| TranslationWikiPage | The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech |
| Translator | Fletcher, W.; Blankleder, H. |
| Wylie | de'i dpe ma grub ste skyes bu gcig ni pha dang bu nyid du bzhag pa ni ltos sa tha dad pa gnyis la ltos nas brtags pa'am btags pa tsam yin gyi_/don dam par rang gi ngo bos pha bu gnyis kar yang dag par nyid du grub pa min te/_/ |
| ChantedAudio |
Alignment info
| Parameter | Value |
|---|---|
| AuthorLabel | Kunzang Palden 1862 - 1943 |
| DuplicateRootTranslation | false |
| Notes | First Translation Memory Created by Tsadra Foundation. |
| RootSourceTransMem | 001-Tsadra-BCA-Root-Padmakara |
| RootTextWikiPage | Texts/Bodhicaryāvatāra |
| ShortTitle | Padmakara (2006) |
| SourceAuthor | People/Kun bzang dpal ldan |
| SourceCitation | Kun bzang dpal ldan. Byang chub sems dpa'i spyod pa la 'jug pa'i tshig 'grel 'jam dbyangs bla ma'i zhal lung bdud rtsi'i thig pa. IN byang chub sems dpa'i spyod pa la 'jug pa rtsa ba dang 'grel pa. khreng tu'u: si khron mi rigs dpe skrun khang, 1990. BDRC W21985 |
| SourcePublishedYear | 1990 |
| SourceTitleTibetan | བྱང་ཆུབ་སེམས་དཔའི་སྤྱོད་པ་ལ་འཇུག་པའི་ཚིག་འགྲེལ་འཇམ་དབྱངས་བླ་མའི་ཞལ་ལུང་བདུད་རྩིའི་ཐིག་པ། |
| SourceTitleWylie | Byang chub sems dpa'i spyod pa la 'jug pa'i tshig 'grel 'jam dbyangs bla ma'i zhal lung bdud rtsi'i thig pa |
| SourceVersionLabel | Kunzang Palden (1862 - 1943) |
| SourceWikiPage | Books/Byang chub sems dpa'i spyod pa la 'jug pa rtsa ba dang 'grel pa (1990) |
| TranslationCitation | Blankleder, Helena, and Wulstan Fletcher (Padmakara Translation Group), trans. The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech: A Detailed Commentary on Shantideva's Way of the Bodhisattva. By Kunzang Pelden. Boston: Shambhala Publications, 2007. |
| TranslationPublishedYear | 2007 |
| TranslationWikiPage | Books/The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech |
| Translator | People/Blankleder, H.;People/Fletcher, W.;People/Padmakara Translation Group |
| TransMemCreator | Migmar;Gwen;Marcus;Jeremi |
| TransMemDate | 10 June 2022 |
| TransMemID | 002-Tsadra-BCA-Com-Nectar |
| TransMemNum | 002 |
| TransMemOrigin | Tsadra Foundation |
| TransMemType | Commentary |
